tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8215480095403819286.post5999422687625532948..comments2023-04-03T16:10:42.424-05:00Comments on Guns, Guns, & More Gosh Darn Guns: STAND, MOVE, OR SEEK COVER…WHAT WORKS IN A GUNFIGHTJDhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07919662853923099268noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8215480095403819286.post-37813215834216294612012-11-08T16:38:20.274-06:002012-11-08T16:38:20.274-06:00I will definitely pass that on to Greg.
Above I m...I will definitely pass that on to Greg.<br /><br />Above I mentioned the PSP course with Suarez Intl. and Roger Phillips, I wrote the AAR a while ago but never dropped a link here, so....<br /><br />http://gunstuff-jd.blogspot.com/2012/05/aar-suarez-intl-point-shooting.htmlJDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07919662853923099268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8215480095403819286.post-54577320646340131952012-10-17T07:50:44.289-05:002012-10-17T07:50:44.289-05:00Great comments and experimental suggestions by Car...Great comments and experimental suggestions by Carl.<br /><br />I'd also like to see the study conducted at a shorter range; maybe 8 ft.<br /><br />JD, I realize this isn't/wasn't your study, but thanks for posting it.<br /><br />Maybe you could encourage Greg to pursue this further and post updated results here. It would be a great service to the defensive community.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8215480095403819286.post-89309997630813561512012-07-03T23:42:33.478-05:002012-07-03T23:42:33.478-05:00None of this comes as any shock. It only took a s...None of this comes as any shock. It only took a senseless massacre (from the perspective of the tactics used) masquerading as the First World War to put paid to the notion that standing immobile in the open or advancing straight down an enemy's firelane was a smart thing to do. There's a reason why the competent militaries of the world teach fire & maneuver, cover and concealment. Because it improves the individual's chances of survival.<br /><br />As for the difficulty of hitting a moving target while moving yourself, again, no shock there. Anybody who's played quarterback or basketball knows it more difficult to make a pass when both parties are moving. The difference is, it's a darn sight cheaper to practice with a football or basketball, which is why the difficulty scale comes as a surprise. Most of us guys grew up making passes, but not runnin' and gunnin' for real.<br /><br />Respectfully, BDAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8215480095403819286.post-89405798794255656082012-04-25T21:33:44.751-05:002012-04-25T21:33:44.751-05:00Well I thought Suarez Intl. was under a training r...Well I thought Suarez Intl. was under a training related side-bar...but that side-bar has seemed to disappear. Where did my side-bar go????JDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07919662853923099268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8215480095403819286.post-53079807105461127752012-04-25T21:28:47.354-05:002012-04-25T21:28:47.354-05:00Carl, just for clarification, it wasn't "...Carl, just for clarification, it wasn't "my" study, Greg is an instructor @ TDI where I've attended class and this study was mentioned sometime during Pistol II. <br /><br />Shy, <br /><br />I just took PSP with Roger last Saturday and Sunday, so I don't mind anyone dropping a link to WT, I'll actually be adding them to the side-bar here soon. Suarez Intl. is all ready listed here.<br /><br />Roger's materials will also be mentioned in my AAR of the class which is in the works. I will say that what he's teaching fits with the desired improvements in training mentioned in article above. <br /><br />"This clearly identifies a need for additional training and highlights the critical importance of making yourself a moving target during a gunfight. If highly trained shooters hit their opponents’ torsos with only eleven percent of rounds fired, imagine how much worse the average street thug with no training and minimal experience will perform under similar conditions!"<br /><br />"I’ll simply say that we as trainers need to do some more work. We need to find a better solution to allow our students to hit their targets with a greater percentage of rounds during the stressful, fast-evolving nature of a gunfight. Whatever that solution is, be it training in point shooting techniques, an enhanced sighted shooting curriculum, or stress-inoculating scenario-based training, it is our collective responsibility as trainers to find it."JDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07919662853923099268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8215480095403819286.post-3986917647632599832012-04-25T17:41:31.227-05:002012-04-25T17:41:31.227-05:00Not meaning to be presumptious or anything (which ...Not meaning to be presumptious or anything (which means I'm probably both already), may I suggest reading Roger Phillips' "Point Shooting Progressions"? Or watching his DVD of the same name. I won't mention the site, since it seems to be a no-no doing so on another's blog, but the principles set forth by him are how to train exactly as you're indicating. And watching him shoot (on the DVD) is impressive. He not only hits on the move, he does it on the run, and covers getting off the X very well.<br />Too, he gets heavily into the one-hand shooting techniques of Sykes-Fairbairn. His conclusion on one-handed technique and movement is simply, "Let it happen and your body will figure it out." It appears some of the test subjects did just that.<br />My apologies if I've stepped where I shouldn't.Shy Wolfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12708293970831678927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8215480095403819286.post-31716596945266393842012-04-24T03:55:33.276-05:002012-04-24T03:55:33.276-05:00Two issues:
You may have an order effect going on...Two issues:<br /><br />You may have an order effect going on. The actual results in Phase 2 and Phase 3 include both the differences in tactics (Stand Fast/Move/Seek Cover) and the learning effects from experiencing the Stand Fast phase before the Move phase before the cover phase. Most likely, you may have created some increased effect on aversion to getting hit.<br /><br />To alter this, you should have tried a "round robin" sort of situation where you randomly assigned the shooters to six groups. Each group would participate in the same 3 phases, just in different orders. This way, assuming you still find a significant difference, you can rule out an order effect and have more validity to your hypothesis.<br /><br />The second issue is survivability and mis-matched strategies. Did the drill only stop when both participants fire both rounds? Were there situations where one participant never got a shot off? In these cases, the tactics may have altered your hit rates by effectively preventing accurate fire on the part of the other participant. As well, when both participants know the strategy being employed by the other, it might alter the outcomes.<br /><br />So, one way you can revise your pilot experiment is to devise a method that assigns a tactic to each participant without the knowledge of the other participant. Ensure that all participants (which will be your total number of data points) use all 3 tactics against each other tactic. This should both get rid of any learning effect, allow a better overall comparison between tactics overall, and potentially see if there's a particular effect for mismatched tactics. <br /><br />(i.e.: I stand and fight, he's moving for cover)<br /><br />Data points would be the number of hits (and the number of torso hits) by each shooter in each condition.<br /><br />Could be fun... But, unless you have a much larger sample size, it would mean 9 "gunfight" scenarios per person...Carl J. Armstrong Jr.https://www.blogger.com/profile/15930821841508712889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8215480095403819286.post-6965087121488882242012-04-17T02:02:50.133-05:002012-04-17T02:02:50.133-05:00Very interesting stuff.
I only wish the variables ...Very interesting stuff.<br />I only wish the variables were played with and more data accumulated.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com